Conquering Workflows & Systems For Bookkeepers & Accountants | with Alyssa Lang (Workflow Queen)

Pricing for Profitability: How to Make Sure Every Client is Worth It

• Alyssa Lang • Season 1 • Episode 90

Share episode

In this solo episode, Alyssa Lang dives into pricing strategies that ensure every client contributes to your firm’s profitability. She covers common pricing mistakes, guides listeners on calculating true client costs, and explains the benefits of shifting to value-based pricing for sustainable growth.

In this episode you’ll hear:

  • Why common pricing mistakes can destroy your profit margins—and how to avoid them
  • How to calculate the true cost of each client and ensure they’re worth your time
  • What value-based pricing is and why it often beats hourly rates for firm owners
  • How to set a target profit margin that supports sustainable growth
  • When it’s time to raise your rates—and how to communicate it confidently

Resources mentioned in this episode:

💻 Breakthrough for Bookkeepers & Accountants

💻 Client Profitability Tracker for Bookkeepers & Accountants

💻 Ambitious Bookkeeper’s Pricing for Profit resource

🎙️ How Breakthrough Transformed a Bookkeeper into a Thriving Firm Owner with Megan Andersen

🎙️ The Art of Pricing: Insights on Creating Value and Confidence in Your Pricing with Helena Donald

Thanks for listening. If this episode inspired you in some way, take a screenshot of you listening on your device and post it to your Instagram stories and tag me, @workflowqueen

For more information about the Conquering Workflows & Systems for Bookkeepers & Accountants Podcast or interest in our programs or mentoring visit our resources below:

Visit our website: workflowqueen.com

Check out our courses: workflowqueen.com/courses

Follow the Blog: workflowqueen.com/blog

Connect on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/alyssa-lang-wq

Connect on Instagram: instagram.com/workflowqueen

Connect on Facebook: Facebook.com/workflowqueen

Podcast Publishing Tools we use:

Hey, everyone. Welcome back to the podcast today. We're diving into something that can completely transform how you think about your business, which is all about pricing for profitability. If you've ever felt like you're working harder than ever, but not seeing the returns you actually deserve this episode is for you. We're going to be talking about the top pricing mistakes at secretly destroy your profit margins, how to calculate the real cost of serving each client and why switching to value-based pricing could be the key to increasing your income without working more hours. And here's the best part guys by the end of the episode, you'll know exactly how to determine if each client is truly worth your time, or if it's time to raise those rates. Plus I have a special tool I'll be sharing to make it easy for you to calculate and adjust your prices on the spot. So grab your notebook and let's get ready to dive in. Do you ever feel like you're working harder than ever, but still not hitting your profit goals then today's episode is for you. We're deep diving into how to make sure every client is worth it. By setting the pricing right upfront, we'll be covering common mistakes. I see a lot of bookkeepers and accountants making when it comes to pricing. I'm going to help you guys to calculate your real costs of each of your clients. And we're going to talk about the game-changing power of value based pricing. Before we dive into the meat and potatoes of this episode. I didn't want to share a bit of a personal story with you guys, because I want you guys to understand that I come from a place where I understand what it's like to underprice yourself and not really take care of yourself financially. And you're just kind of bending over backwards for people. And if that sounds like you, then hopefully the story resonates with any one of you. No matter what part of your journey you're at guys, whether you're just starting or you have been doing this for many, many years, we have all come into situations and scenarios where we did not price ourselves correctly. Maybe it's because it's someone that we really like. And so we felt really bad or someone who maybe they aren't making a lot of revenue in their companies. So then you feel bad. So then you discount yourself whatever that story might actually be for you. For myself. When I first started my firm, this was back in like 2015 when I started top-notch bookkeeping solutions. I started in the tax space. That's originally where I started. And I so undervalued what I did because I didn't believe in myself and I didn't understand. What it actually took and nor was I educated on how to actually calculate my profitability. So when I did tax returns, I did them. So for so cheap and I also did it for a lot of like regulars. Cause I worked at a bar at the time that I started my firm. And so a lot of my tax clients came from the bar that I bar tended at. Some of them are business owners. Some of them were personal 10 forties and stuff like that. And because of already knew them and had a pre-established relationship, I kind of allowed them to just talk me into just pricing them at whatever felt good to them. And I never really thought about myself and never really thought about what I actually needed until the business really grew. And until it got to a certain point where I was like, you know what. This is not sustainable. For me to just price based off of what everybody else is telling me to price, rather looking at real upfront data. So I went through this whole process and I think this was back in like 2019, where I reevaluated all my clients at that time. I wasn't just doing taxes. I was doing taxes and bookkeeping work and consulting. And at that time I went and reevaluated everybody. I looked at, how much does it cost us? How much time are we spending on it? How much time is my team's spending on it? And everything. And then I realize guys, I was literally losing a lot of money on certain clients of ours.'cause. I was just too scared to raise their rates or too scared to price them right at the beginning, because I felt like I was going to be judged or that I wasn't going to do things right. Or that they were going to not want to ever refer me to anybody because now I'm more expensive. Right. So at that time, we did a really big overhaul of making sure that we reevaluated our clients. And we repriced everybody and we lost some, but we also gained some over time. And it was honestly one of the best things I can do my for myself. And so over the years, I've definitely built my confidence in pricing. I know what my value is. I know what my worth is. And I think that over time as you get that. Feeling. It starts to get way easier for you as you're actually building out the right pricing and really aligning it. So I want to really deep dive into today's episode about like the logistics of things that you can do to make sure that you are profitable. But I just want to start off by saying pricing. Isn't just about covering your cost for the business. It's really about building a firm that truly supports you guys gives you the freedom to step back and really helps you to grow sustainably. And honestly, if you get your pricing, right, it gives you the peace of mind that every single client that walks through that front door is actually contributing to the health of your business. And really working you towards the goal of why you started your business in the first place. So let's just go on and deep dive into the fun, actionable steps. That we need to be implementing in order to know that our clients are profitable. So step number one is avoid common pricing, mistakes that actually destroy your profit margins. So I'm gonna talk about three mistakes that I see a lot in the industry. Mistake. Number one is underestimating your kid in costs. So this is so huge guys. A lot of the times we're only looking at things like, okay, this is how much I charged my client minus how much we pay for direct software to maintain that client. However, what about the time that your team is spending? How about the time that you're spending, if you don't have a team yet, what is it actually costing? You. Not just from the standpoint of the direct cost, but also the standpoint of like all the times that you're communicating with your clients. The tools and subscriptions, the admin time, the times that you guys are discussing clients during meetings, stuff like that. There's so many hidden costs that come into play. When we're looking at how are we. Pricing out our clients. And what is the true profitability? So I always recommend taking a step back. And actually really evaluating what those hidden costs actually are, which we're going to talk about here. Later in the episode, I'm actually going to show you how to calculate your true costs for each client. And I have a resource for you guys as well. Something that you guys can sign up for. So we're going to talk about that here in just a second. Mistake number two that I see a lot is defaulting to discounts. Okay, guys. I, like I said, in my story. Back in the day I used to be like that person, who'd be like, oh, I feel really bad for them. Oh my gosh, I need to lower my rates because like their revenue is just not so high or whatever. The reason was. I always found a reason why I needed to discount something. And this is still like a thing that I constantly battle. So I don't want to make it seem like I don't still battle this because I absolutely do. I've just gotten a lot better at it. So if you're one of those people, who've constantly find yourself discounting things, or you're just uncertain if like what you're charging is like, right. Or correct. Once you start calculating out your direct costs. And you're actually looking at the client profitability guys, it's black and white data to not make you feel bad to think that you have to constantly discount. So one thing that I like to highlight in this arena, which I feel like I bring up a lot to different students in our programs is. A lot of people will be like, you know what? I just can't charge him a lot because the client's only making, let's just say it's a hundred K. So I can't, there's no way I can charge him at least $400 a month. Like bare minimum. That just it's just not right. At the end of the day, guys. Everybody is struggling with their own version of not pricing correctly. And that also applies to your clients. And so the reason I really preface this is because it's actually a clear opportunity for you to tell your clients, look. We're going to have to start you at our base rate, which is $400 a month. I would love to offer you monthly consulting at an extra $250 fee. For us to get on a call so that we can help you to better price your services and your offers so that you can make more money. Because at the end of the day, guys, if you're able to help them make more money, Then, like they can afford you. So I always use it as an opportunity to let them know, like, and I truly do. I have gone. Through it with a lot of our clients who like we did end up getting them into a package where we consulted with them. And they did. They changed their invoicing. They changed their fees. They change what they were collecting. And then they were making double what they originally were making before they started working with us. And so I always like to preface to that at the end of the day, the way that your client decides to price. It is not contingent on the way that you should be pricing them. And the reason I say that is because they could be pricing so ridiculously wrong. And why should you lower your standards? Because they have not lifted up their standards of what they should be pricing. And I know that sounds a little bit harsh and I swear that's coming from a really good place. But at the end of the day, like if someone is supposed to, let's just say it's a social media manager, we're working with them. The average social media management, monthly fee that they charged their client should be around a thousand a month. However, they're only charging people $250. It's not my fault that they are choosing to charge literally so much cheaper than the average social media management firm. But this is so normal in the space that most people just underprice themselves. So I like to really preface this, that you also have to evaluate that the way that you're pricing someone, like don't let it be justified based off the revenue number that you see. Everybody is a responsible enough human being to tell, you know, if it wasn't within their budget or they did not align with the actual price that you offered. And so at the end of the day, you might lose someone. And I understand that this is stressful for any of you guys who are maybe just starting out who are just like, I will literally take anyone. I think all of us at one point how to just take someone in order to get revenue coming in. I think that there's a time and place for that. However, if you've been around for quite some time, Then guys stop discounting yourself, stop feeling bad for the business owner. At the end of the day, they are responsible enough to tell you no. So I hope that helps you guys. Mistake number three, that I see when it comes to pricing and in the industry is not reviewing your pricing regularly. That guys. I see this quite often inside of my breakthrough program. I talk about this all the time that you need to create some sort of a consistent flow. On, when you actually evaluate your pricing, it doesn't mean that you're constantly. Increasing your rates, or you're constantly doing all these different things. But the reason I mentioning this is because there's a such a thing called inflation, increased team costs. Right now, things are just so much more expensive than we ever imagined . So if you haven't been raising your rates recently, Then you might need to really consider that because. Even if you just evaluate it, it will give you such a great. The positive slap in the vase. A good thing. Uh, positive slap in the face of like, holy crap. I am so undercharging. Like we're barely making any money. The wonder, I can't pay my extra bills. We need to create a schedule for this, a cadence for this. So. I'll give you my cadence of what we use in my firm. So at my firm, we actually do a quarterly. Pricing review. It does not mean every quarter. We are increasing rates. A lot of the times we're increasing our client's race once a year, but we are reviewing it once a quarter and we're pulling our time tracking data to see how much it's costing us for our team. The software costs all the. random little things that we have to pay for in order to maintain that client. So my recommendation is pick a timeframe, a consistency that you guys are actually going to go in. And be re-evaluating the rates that you're currently charging your clients. So let's deep dive into step number two, which is all about calculating your true costs to price correctly. So I want to cover three different points within the step two. we're going to talk about cost-based pricing basics. I'm also going to talk about adding a profit margin and something to strive towards. And then also factoring in your non-billable time. So we're going to deep dive into all three of these points here in this episode. So for step number two, calculating your true cross to price correctly. We want to start off with actually looking at the cost-based pricing basics. So really what this is, guys is how to basic li Calculate. How much profitability you're making on your clients. So for example, the easiest and simplest calculation for this. Is to take how much you're charging your client. And I want you to minus out any direct labor associated like the cost of your labor directly associated with delivering on that client services. And then I also want you to minus how any software costs that's directly related to delivering on the service. And any other specific things that maybe you had to pay for, maybe it was fees to file 10 90 nines for that client, whatever costs that you have in place. It's as simple as that. So let's just say, for example, for easy. Easy listening and easy calculations. Cause I'm terrible at calculating things off the top of my head. Let's just say that you charge your client a hundred dollars a month. if you're charging your clients $100 a month, I'm going to tell you right now, please make sure to increase that rate, but that's neither here nor there. So for a simple calculation, let's just say that you charge your client a hundred dollars a month, but let's just say that your software is $25, but then your labor. So how much you paid someone to do the work was $25. So that means that you spent $50 in order to maintain that client. So, if we take how much you charge them, which is the example of a hundred dollars minus the total cost of actually maintaining that client, which was $50 means that you are leftover with $50 at the end of. all the work that you guys did, the software that you paid for everything. So that means that you have a 50% profit margin directly on that client. Think about it, guys. What about all the other overhead costs? What about like, if you use a project management system, like a sauna, what about like the, the coach that you end up hiring or the programs that you take, AKA, everything else that you spend in the business. This is not even accounting for that, which you shouldn't be accounting for that. Directly when you're looking at direct client profitability, in my opinion, however, with a 50% profit margin, you still have to factor in all the other stuff that needs to happen in the background. In order for you to still run the business, the insurance that you have to pay for the education. Pretty much everything that you guys need to pay for. And so that means that that profit margin per client comes from 50%. I can now drop down to like 40%. And so I like to just keep this in mind as we're walking through. when you're actually calculating this. So my recommendation is that you take the time to list out every single client that you have. How much are you currently charging them? And then looking at how much is it costing you for the software that you pay for? This could be things like if you pay for keeper for the client Xanax for the client, it could be, your QBO software hub, doc, whatever you guys pay for that you give directly to the client. Two X stuff like that. Then I want you to look at the direct cost of labor. If you do have a team, the simple calculation for that is taking the team number of hours, times it by their fee. That you pay them. So if it's like $20 an hour times that by four. That would be 80. Dollars for the labor. I'm terrible at math guys in my head. And so just look at the direct costs. If you do not have a team, I will explain how to do this to future. Costs, what it would cost you to have a team. So if you are the only person in your company, but you eventually want to hire, and you want to know what your profitability would change to. If you ended up hiring my recommendation is time track. For yourself. and then times your number of hours, times it by a rate that you would potentially hire that position for. So for example, if you spend five hours and you would pay someone 20 hours to do your job, then take five times 20 and that's how much your labor would cost. So obviously your, your profitability, if you're a solo firm, owner is going to be a lot higher. Then, if you do have a team, my recommendation is. You just determine what feels good for you at the beginning of my, from my very first one. I genuinely was like, I'm never hiring anybody else. I'm keeping all the things. I could never go back to working by myself guys. Like I am so obsessed with my team. I like to take trips and vacations and still know that we're making money without me having to do all the work. And so I do recommend that if you are currently so low to look at how much it would cost you to actually bring on that team member. So next thing that we're going to talk about when it comes to calculating your true cost for your clients is I want you to look at your profit margin. So what is your goal profit margin that you want to make on your clients? So using that. Earlier example, or we said that you charge the client a hundred dollars. And then all of your direct costs was $50. I left you with a 50% profit margin. I always recommend thinking through what's your direct profit margin, and this is not the bottom line, profit margin on your P and L. This is like the cost per client. So I'll share mine with you guys are striving for profit margin is 70% for our clients. And a lot of people are like, holy ****, that's a large number. But remember guys, we also have overhead, so that's not accounting for all the overhead. So that means that we're starting off at 70% profit margin for our clients. That gives us room to grow. That gives us room to bring on new team members. We have onboarding specialists, a cleanup specialist. We have people on our team that can support us in all different arenas. And so my recommendation is to give yourself some sort of a stat or some sort of target for that profit margin. I see a lot of people in the space, kind of hitting anywhere from 15 to 20%. When they aren't pricing their clients correctly. And so my recommendation is get this calculation and see where you're currently at for your profit margin. That way you can increase it. If going from 20% profit margin to 70% is a massive jump, which it is guys. I do not recommend going from 20% to 70% striving. I would just increase that over time. So I would say like by next year, if your current profit margin per client average is around 20%, then you can say by next year, maybe it's up to 50%. So you're going to work over the whole entire year to get up to 50%, maybe in 20, 26, it's going to go to 70% to all previous clients. However new clients that come into your world, guys, you could strive for the big target that you want. However, it is kind of really hard to increase your prior clients to the new profit margin. Percentage that you want to strive for. So my recommendation is jot down those percentages, all the different details and the information that you need for your profit margin. So that way you can track that. And we have. A resource for you guys. I've been talking about here in just a second, that you guys can easily be able to plug in all your information. It will spit out all the data for you. So the last thing in this step, number two of calculating your true cost to price correctly is to factor in non-billable time. this won't really necessarily affect, Like, it's not really like your overhead. It's, I'll give you an example of this. So let's just say that you're doing the client's books and let's just say one hour of the time you're doing the books directly related to that client. However, maybe you're spending 15 minutes per month. On just emailing the client back and forth. So I know a lot of people will only calculate the time spent on directly doing the bookkeeping. However, in my firm, we actually do non-billable time, which would be like if I were to do hourly pricing, which I don't, which we'll talk about here in just a second. If I did hourly pricing, I would not. I would not be including non-billable time, like communicating with the client or, doing team meetings, discussing a specific client or doing the backend stuff. However, in my calculations, I do wrap in all the time we spend working on client stuff in general, whether it's non-billable or billable. so my recommendation is to also factor in non-billable time. So it could be admin tasks, client meetings, stuff like that. So as far as the resource that I keep mentioning over and over again, if you are struggling to track this profitability per client, You want to have an easy resource? That you can easily just pop in how much you're charging your clients, the different costs, and then it will calculate your average profit margin percentage. Then I'm going to highly recommend you check out our brand new resource. This is actually the first time I am announcing this resource and I'm actually going to be sharing it here on this podcast. It's the first time I'm super excited about it. This is actually a resource that we provide inside of my breakthrough group coaching program. Which is going to cover a lot of offers from a to Z. However, if you have been interested in breakthrough, but maybe you're just not ready to invest in the full program, then I'm going to share with you guys one of the resources that we give in our offers module. So this offer, we're calling a client profitability tracker. And you can go to workflowqueen.com/profitcheck. We will also link that in the show notes for you guys. And this lovely resource guys is going to be our exact calculator that we give to our students. It's a spreadsheet. That they're able to plug in all their client's data, how much time they spend on each client. The billable rates, anything like that. So that way it can spit out how much of whether you're profitable or you're not. And also can show you your profit margin per client. So that way you could see if maybe it's time to potentially raise your rates with this resource, you guys will also get a step-by-step video tutorial of how to use a spreadsheet. I will also be throwing in there, a pricing and profitability guide, which we show you guys and share with you guys. Some of the things I talked to on this episode, like what my, profit margin percentage is right now and what we're striving for any of the do's and don'ts stuff like that. And I'm also going to be throwing in another bonus, which is when is it time to actually raise your rate? So this bonus will help you to identify based off the data that's in your spreadsheet. When is it time to actually raise those rates for your clients? And I'm super excited. So we'll be dropping that link below. If you guys are interested in that and having something at a resource that can help you easily calculate that information. But without further ado, let's go to move forward. So step three of this episode is to shift your, to value based pricing. And so I know a lot of you guys who are listening are mostly because we have pulled our community before. However we do still probably have about 20% of our listeners are doing an hourly based pricing for their clients. Neither is right or wrong. I will say that I will preface that from the beginning. It does not matter what you do, you have to do. Whatever makes the most sense for you. However, there are a lot of people who, when you're doing pricing by hourly, start to regret doing hourly pricing because guys at the end of the day, you're not just trading your time. For the work and the money, right. You're actually trading knowledge. And that's where I always stand behind value being more important than hourly pricing, because my value over time of like, How much time I had to spend to learn all the things, how much time I had to pour into my team to learn all the things. All the certifications and the things that we had to do. So that's why I've chosen to do value pricing over hourly pricing. Either, like I said is, okay, no matter what, you can do the same resource that I mentioned above whether you're doing hourly pricing or you're doing value pricing, that's truly up to you guys. And it really, really doesn't matter. And I don't ever want to like pigeonhole people and make them think that you have to be one of the other or shame you for doing hourly or shame you for doing value. Pricing. It doesn't matter to me guys. It all matters to what makes the most sense for your firm? If you are someone who has previously been pricing hourly and you try to transition to value pricing, I will tell you it's best. If you go back and look at the average amount of time spent per month, average amount of fee, and then just kick into that average fee price. And rolled it out to previous clients. However, it's always so much easier guys. I will always preface as it's so much easier. To apply changes to future clients rather than prior clients doesn't mean it's not possible. I'm just saying that it is a lot harder to do it too. Clients that are already with you because they're so like, used to the way that you do things that it doesn't make sense. Like sometimes to like immediately just pop them into the new changes. so I just wanted to talk about value based pricing really is where you were just taking a step back and you are determining how much time you're actually spending on something. The beauty of value-based pricing too, is the fee never changes for the client. So that's how we pitch it to the client that we don't do hourly rates, because why don't you want to know just every month, how much you're paying for us. Like some months might take us longer. So my take us lower and I'm not about our, what it kind of balances itself out. And so when you are transitioning from hourly to something like value based, a lot of people are like, oh my God, Alyssa, I have no idea what to price people. When it comes to value pricing. I don't know how to calculate that. Totally totally reasonable. And I think it's really normal. I'm actually going to link a resource below. It's not my resource. It's actually by Ambitious Bookkeeper. So Serena Shoup. She does have a, Program. I think it's called, it's like a mini resource. It's called. Pricing to profit or profit to pricing, something like that. Guys, I will link it below for you guys. I'm going to butcher it if I keep going. But anyways, if you're struggling with like how to price people at value pricing, feel free to check out her calculator. We don't offer a calculator for you guys to price your services. it is just something that I have actually received my pricing calculator from a program that I took many years ago. So back in, 2018. And so I don't feel comfortable with giving out that calculator that I use from that. Program. because that would just not be cool because I bought it from them and they own it. Right. So I will, link Serena's resource below. If you are someone who's like, I don't even know how to price my clients or how to transition from hourly to value-based pricing. Then I will link that below for you guys. Another thing I wanted to share with you guys, I will link this as well is I want you to check out one of our podcasts episodes that we did. With actually one of my students in my breakthrough program, her name was Megan Anderson, the podcast. is called how breakthrough transform a bookkeeper into a thriving firm owner with Megan Anderson. This is episode number 25. I will link it below. I want you to take the time to listen to this episode. Megan actually used to price hourly based pricing, and then she transitioned because of the program and our teachings. She transitioned over to value pricing, and she said it's been the most profitable and the best change that she's had, even if you currently are value-based pricing. I do recommend checking out that episode. So guys, before we end off this episode today, I know that we covered a lot of different things. So come back to the episode, listen through whenever you're ready. But I do want to cover a couple of common objections and misconceptions that I hear a lot. In the space when it comes to this topic. Objection. Number one that I hear is Fear of charging more. And this is something guys that we all have dealt with. It is so scary. To ask people to pay you more than what you value yourself at. And I will recognize that all day, every day, I always tell people that, what do you value your price at? And then I want you to increase that fee. So if you think at the end of the day that, oh, my service is only worth $200. I want to really encourage you guys to push that limit just a little bit, push the envelope, open it just a little bit more. I want you to then change your pricing to $250 a month. Something that's not so uncomfortable that you don't believe it, but something uncomfortable enough to push you to strive for more. I know what it's like, guys, I used to charge a very small dirt, cheap price. I used to also charge hourly. Then I transitioned to value and then I eventually raised my rates even more. And now like, I absolutely stand behind. How much I charged for stuff because I have years of experience doing so many different things. My team is fricking incredible, but I want you to know that it's okay if you fear this, that means that you have to do some internal mindset work in order to feel aligned with charging what you're actually worth. The other thing I hear a lot is clients only care about low costs. This is such I know you think I'm crazy for saying that? But everybody thinks that everybody's just out to get a low cost for everything. I want you to take a step back and ask that question to yourself. I want you to ask yourself honestly and say, are you always only worried about low costs or are you sometimes depending on what you're buying. More enticed by the benefit it gives you, this is where you have to do the work eyes to learn how to talk about benefits. Rather than specifics or rather than your price. So for me, the benefit of working with my firm. And having us do someone's bookkeeping or cleanup or even consult with them is because we have a leg up in the industry and we know and understand our niche. Like the back of our hand, we have so much industry insight that if they go to another firm, they're not going to get that industry insight, which means we can give them the leg up to move faster and move forward stronger than another firm who doesn't understand the industry. That right there would be the reason why someone doesn't care about the budget and doesn't care about how much it costs. They just want to know that. They have industry insight and support that goes beyond what another firm does. So if you have that normal thing that comes up for you that says clients only care about the money. They don't guys. I know that some will some will. I'm not going to discredit that some absolutely will be more concerned about the money. However, that's not true for everybody. It just means that you might have to choose a different niche, a different type of person. How are you talking to them? Are you explaining the benefits so on and so forth? If this is something that you truly struggle with. I recently did a podcast interview and I interviewed her name is Halina Donald. She's incredible. She's so wicked smart. And she's got the cutest voice in the whole world. She's got an accent and it's like the best, but I just recently, interviewed her. And the podcast episode is podcast episode number 88, and it's called the art of pricing insights on creating value and confidence in your pricing with Halena, Donald. I highly recommend guys, if you are going through mindset issues. Listen to this episode, I was even jotting notes down. This is all about how to reframe your thoughts on making sure that you can align with the value that you're saying to your clients. I really hope that in today's episode, you guys got a lot of info. It's so much information guys. I do want to, remind you guys that we do have that brand new resource that I'm super excited about. That we pulled from my big group coaching program breakthrough, and the resource that you guys are, if you want to, you can sign up for it's called client profitability tracker, and you can go to workflow queen.com backslash profit check, or you can click the notes or the link in the show notes. This is going to be our exact client profitability tracker spreadsheet. That not only calculates how much money you are, either up or down per client, but also your profit margin, and your hourly value as well. And that's going to include a step-by-step video tutorial. And also some cute, fun bonuses about, how to know when it's time to raise your rates and to pricing and profitability guidelines that I actually follow in my firm as well. I am so excited guys, just to recap the takeaways of what we covered in today's episode is we talked about avoiding common pricing mistakes. We also covered calculating your true cost per client. And how to shift to value-based pricing. I am so excited and, next week we are going to continue to build upon. This topic., next week, you can expect our episode, be talking about attracting your dream clients. So marketing strategies that actually work within the industry. So if you're intrigued by that, don't forget to follow this lovely podcast to make sure that you get updates whenever we have new episodes. So I'm so excited because I've got so many fun things cooking up for to next week's episode. And I cannot wait. And thank you so much for you guys being here. If you have any questions, feel free to reach out to us. And without further ado, I will see you all on next week's episode.