Conquering Workflows & Systems For Bookkeepers & Accountants | with Alyssa Lang (Workflow Queen)

Adjusting Month End Close Due Dates to Better Manage Client Work with Brooke Swan

• Season 1 • Episode 84

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Alyssa Lang interviews Brooke Swan, owner and founder of Clarity Bookkeeping & Consulting who’s on a mission to help her clients gain more clarity in their finances. Brooke’s become an educator in this space and today they talk about how to identify month end deadlines and how to shift them for clients to create better project management for herself and her team.

In this episode you’ll hear:

  • The original due date Brooke set for herself and her team to hand over financials
  • The reality of managing month end close for a large amount of clients
  • Due date options for sending clients final reports
  • How to get passed unrealistic pressure we put on ourselves
  • How to survey your clients to determine what day they want their reports
  • How to get input from your team and make changes for the better

About our guest:

Brooke Swan is the founder and CEO of Clarity Bookkeeping & Consulting. She started her firm in 2018 with the goal of helping business owners not only understand their finances, but enjoy a better work-life balance and helping them build the business of their dreams. Through their advisory services and creative strategic approaches, Clarity has helped hundreds of business owners reach their goals!

Brooke operates her firm on a 4-day work week that values efficiency, collaboration, and positivity which also allows her team to enjoy a better work-life balance as well! Brooke has a burning desire to help others and has been coaching other bookkeeping business owners for years. She now exclusively coaches with Team Workflow Queen in their Breakthrough program. She has been featured on the I Love Bookkeeping Podcast, The Finance & Accounting Show podcast, and was a featured speaker at BKX 2022.

Resources mentioned in this episode:

💻 Breakthrough for Bookkeepers & Accountants

💻 Bookkeeper Launch program

🔗 CloudHQ

Thanks for listening. If this episode inspired you in some way, take a screenshot of you listening on your device and post it to your Instagram stories and tag me, @workflowqueen

For more information about the Conquering Workflows & Systems for Bookkeepers & Accountants Podcast or interest in our programs or mentoring visit our resources below:

Visit our website: workflowqueen.com

Follow the Blog: workflowqueen.com/blog

Connect on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/alyssa-lang-wq

Connect on Instagram: instagram.com/workflowqueen

Connect on Facebook: Facebook.com/workflowqueen

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So I decided to do something extra special for today's episode. So we have had some great success with some incredible podcast episodes that have really just spoken to you guys and really helped you to actually do some implementation. And really help you to tackle some major issues in the business. So for today's episode, I'm actually going to be repurposing an incredible interview. I did with one of my biz besties, Brooke Swan, the owner and founder of clarity, bookkeeping consulting. She's also one of our coaches inside of my group coaching program breakthrough, and she's just such an incredible human being she's wicked smart. And one thing that has been such a great topic that people have come back to and listen to over and over and over again, is a special episode that we did, which was actually episode number two, which was all about adjusting your month. End, close due dates to better manage your client. Work. So if you've been one of those people who are really struggling with all the different work, but we're putting this pressure on ourselves that we think that we always need to get reports out by either the 10th or the 15th. And you're just so tired of feeling that stress from month end, and you want to just change the narrative and change the way that you do things. Then this episode is for you. And this episode, me and Brooke, going to deep, dive into adjusting your month, end close to give your clients options of when they received their reports. That way you better manage your projects, and the work for your clients. We're going to deep dive into how this actually. I was rolled out. Me and her are gonna just really go into replicating the system and how to actually implement into your business. So this is a prerecorded episode that I really wanted to bring back and put right in front of you guys again, because it was one of the most transformational episodes. That we've ever recorded. And I just am so honored that it was with one of my best friends who actually this week is getting married. So that was another reason why I wanted to honor here on this episode. So I hope you enjoy and feel free to reach out if you have any questions or want to share some wins as some of the implementation you do from this episode.

Alyssa:

Hey everyone and welcome back to the Conquering Workflows and Systems for Bookkeepers and Accountant podcast. I am so excited to be bringing on a guest expert today who not only is a guest expert that y'all are listening to, but also someone I can call a really close friend of mine. Probably one of my besties and also someone in my life in the business as well. She's also one of the lovely coaches over in one of my signature programs, breakthroughs for Bookkeeper in Accountants. Her name is Brook Swan. She is super incredible and if you are a bookkeeper launch student, you've probably one, seen her on stage at BKX, talking about all the fun things, team, and also working shorter hours and also just being an incredible person in the community and being super, super helpful. And I am so honored that you're here today, Brooke. And welcome!

Brooke:

Well, thanks Alyssa. I wouldn't not be here and also, I'm really glad I let you run with the intro cuz I would've not said any of that if I had to introduce myself. thanks. And also I thought we were best friends, but,

Alyssa:

Oh, we are. It's okay.

Brooke:

Okay, good. Okay.

Alyssa:

We're, we're past that.

Brooke:

Okay.

Alyssa:

We've already determined Next time we do another podcast episode, it's gonna be the monthly bookkeeping buds

Brooke:

yes. Bookkeeping, besties, if you will.

Alyssa:

Bookkeeping besties buds

Brooke:

it's not the same. Not the same.

Alyssa:

Like bbb. Put it all in there.

Brooke:

Oh, okay. We'll work, yeah,

Alyssa:

We'll work on it. So gimme a little bit of background. A lot of people here might not know who you are. They may. Know exactly who you are. And if you do know who Brooke is, please give her a massive shout out. Come over to our Instagram and say, Hey, at Workflow Queen on Instagram. But I want you to, tell us a little bit about yourself, your backstory. I just love where you came from and your ambition, and just tell me all the things.

Brooke:

Oh gosh. I don't think we have enough time for all of that , but if I had to give you the Cliff notes version, okay. So I started bookkeeping business in 2018. So it's almost like, dude, it's gonna be five years in April.

Alyssa:

Oh my gosh.

Brooke:

Isn't that crazy?

Alyssa:

Wow. That's crazy. Yeah.

Brooke:

And before that I had no prior bookkeeping experience. I did the, bookkeeper launch program, like a lot of people who I'm sure. Are listening to this podcast. Before that, oh, I did a, I did a whole lot of different things. I had like, so I had my, finance degree. I, what did I do after that? Oh, I worked for a construction company and I got really tired of, I just got tired of like working for other people cuz I just felt limited in like the ideas that I came up with cuz I couldn't, I didn't have the authority to like

Alyssa:

Yeah.

Brooke:

Make decisions. So anyways, they actually, they fired me.. Funny enough., Alyssa: it needed to happen.. Brooke: Yeah. It's, you know what's funny, I got, I'm, I got fired from a lot of things before I started this business and I'm really glad that I did, cuz if not, I probably wouldn't have ever hard with it as I did.

Alyssa:

Yeah.

Brooke:

But anyway, so they fired me. I went through like a little quarter life crisis and decided to take a bartending, which turns out to be a really great lifelong skill as I'm sure you know.. Alyssa: Yeah. But bartending is also not the greatest gig. And I did some day trading and all the things, but, anyways, just wasn't all fulfilling. So, left those things and business and oh gosh, I don't know how to sum up the last five years other than it's just been like a crazy, Alyssa: like a shit show is what it is. Yes. But like a beautiful shit show. Yes, . That's how I would describe it. It's just been crazy cuz I. It's just so much changed cuz I feel like when I started it, like I loved the bookkeeping and it was just me and I just wanted it to like, I just wanted to just do bookkeeping like for other people and like that was it, I was super content. And then, it's just grown and taken on a life of its own. And now we have... uh, oh gosh. We have two full-time employees, two part-time employees, and a couple contractors. and we serve over 50 businesses. I think, and to date, I actually did this count recently. I think we've served almost 150? In over the course of five years. Isn't that nuts?

Alyssa:

That's crazy.

Brooke:

So anyways, I, is that, is that enough?

Alyssa:

Yeah, that's enough. I, it's funny cuz I know you so well because, I mean, we talk like every single day. We're constantly like sharing ridiculous memes. Like I know a lot about your life, but I actually did not know. That you worked for a construction company. That's one thing I learned today.

Brooke:

Yeah. So I, that was like my first job. I literally got that job. I graduated college on like a Saturday and I started that job on a Monday.

Alyssa:

Oh, shit.

Brooke:

And I, yeah, isn't that crazy? And I, I was there, I got hired as like a billing specialist and then I worked my way up in their accounting department. So I think I was like, their, I don't know, what do they call it? I was like a project accountant and then, and then their vice president actually left and started his own company and he took me with them. So I was their only employee and I did like everything there. I think my official title was actually project manager, but I wasn't actually managing projects. I was kind of wearing a lot of hats and doing a lot of things, and I did all of the accounting, but it was absolutely like nothing that related to bookkeeping, if that makes sense.

Alyssa:

Yeah, like isn't it really funny that when you're a business owner, you like don't know what to call people, so you just give 'em a random title that you think fits, but it's like, that's not even what I do.

Brooke:

Yeah, yeah. I would call if I, I would call myself, I was like their senior project accountant, so I just did all the billing and everything for all the different jobs and. Bunch of other things and just got a little complacent.

Alyssa:

That's interesting. I actually like, it's so funny. I really did not know that. That's super cool. So it's so funny for anybody who's listening. So Brooke, like I mentioned earlier, is a part of, one of our coaches at Breakthrough. In Breakthrough we do weekly group coaching calls, and today was the first call of 2023. By the way, it's 2023, January 5th today. and we had a really heavy topic around people who, if you don't know, breakthrough is meant for people who are at the scaling level, people at Brooke's level, essentially people who are striving to be like Brooke. There's a lot of people who are like, I wanna be the next Brooke Swan. Like it's great.

Brooke:

What?

Alyssa:

You can't see her, but I could see the eyes guys.. Brooke: What? I still, yeah, it's great. It's crazy. People are just like so hyped about how much you've grown and how fast you've grown, and also the work that you've put into things like even your speech at BKX was incredible. A lot of people resonated with it, especially not having to work this full-time job and working for these other companies or whatever, instead of dedicating it to your team. But one interesting topic that came up today, which I felt like I was like we have to talk about today, was everybody is so confused about this whole month end close process. And I know working with you like as a friend and also like just through this whole process of owning businesses together, is like having to lean on each other for what is this month end supposed to look like and why are we so slammed from the first to the 10th? So I'm really curious just because I know the outcome of what's happened over time with you. You started out, like you said, just you and you're just doing bookkeeping and you absolutely loved it, and now it's like your baby. It is your baby actually.

Brooke:

Yes. I like to think by now I have like a toddler, but like, and I'm trying, like now I'm teaching, like I'm trying. Like I'm teaching the toddler to ride a bike and we're trying to take off the training wheels so we can go down the street. Do you know what I mean?

Alyssa:

I was gonna say push it down the hill.

Brooke:

Yeah, just push it down the hill and it doesn't need me. Anyways, that was, yeah, month end deadlines. Yeah. So, yeah, I know we were talking about this a little bit earlier, and this is, so this is something that it. Has changed so many like times in, in my business, as I'm sure you

Alyssa:

Yeah.

Brooke:

Know and have seen. So in the beginning, right? Like, so the, a lot of the, I think it really comes down to like, one, your industry and two, like your, your why, like your purpose and just like where your values are at with your company. So like, in the beginning for me, like one of the most important things for me and the way I worked with clients was, Like I know how important, and like the information that you get from your financials is and how much you can do with it. But you also wanna make sure that you have that information and can make decisions in a timely manner. Cuz if you saw like, oh my gosh, like you had a huge like labor spike in in January, but you're not seeing that till April. Well now it's probably way too late to actually catch that and, you know, make any changes that could potentially save you money or headache or whatever. Right. So, because of that, I was like, well, my clients need to get their financials like as soon as humanly possible. And so back when it was just me, that my deadline was the 10th, cuz of course, you know, you have to wait for statements, there's weekends and you know, you kind of, and you also wanna give your clients enough time to potentially give you any information that you might need from them to close out the previous month. So we started out doing the 10th. That worked for a while.

Alyssa:

For a while

Brooke:

Um, Yeah. And, and it didn't, I was ha and one also, it was a little selfish if I'm gonna be totally honest cuz I've always hated month end . So I was like, the last time I gotta spend on it, like the better. Alyssa: Yeah. Like the more time in the month, I don't have to think about it. So it was like, it was like a win for them, selfish for me. So win-win, right? And then, you know, I brought on some, like, I think I had maybe one or two bookkeepers and it still worked, but. Business kept growing, and we kept getting more and more clients. It was getting a lot harder to hit that deadline consistently just cuz it was just too much work to get done in such a short amount of time. Right? And so we ended up pushing it back a couple days to like the 13th, which I was like, okay, it's still soon. Right? Our clients are still getting their financials like, You know, relatively soon. It's not like they're waiting all month or into the next few months or whatever. But then what happens is, Say you have clients and say you have a bunch bum and they're not responsive. Well, okay, now you've given 'em all this time, but now you gotta close like all these clients on the same day in order to get them out by the 13th. And that was becoming a problem too because it was piling so much work into one day that was just not like feasible. And also it was stressful on the team because they felt like they didn't have enough time to like actually get all this done. Right. So it was creating a lot of stress within the firm.

Alyssa:

Yeah.

Brooke:

So then we actually started looking at it from a different standpoint of like, well, what do the clients actually want? Like what's important to them? Like do they care? Do like, do they even care about what we're sending them? Because yes, some will, but some won't, right? Like you're gonna have your clients who are like waiting for it, but then you're gonna have your clients who honestly have probably never even opened a financial statement that you've sent them and like everything in between. So then we started serving our clients in staggering our due dates. and it was a little bit of a hot mess at first cuz I didn't do a great job at the way I implemented this, so that was my fault. We had like three or four due dates and it was, I think that made it more messy.

Alyssa:

Yeah.

Brooke:

Um, but essentially we started survey them and what we found out was a lot of clients really didn't care when they got 'em. You know, and so it helped because then we were able to see the ones who did care, and we were able to prioritize them first because, you know, like, why are we going to put all this pressure on ourselves and, and try and get all this done in such a small time for someone who literally is never gonna look at the end result, right? So, Anyways. Another revision of that came a little bit later where we decided, okay, we're gonna consolidate it to three separate dates. Right now, ours is the 15th, the 20th, and what we call an anytime date. And anytime basically means this is an option for the clients who really just don't care when they get it.

Alyssa:

Yeah.

Brooke:

Like it doesn't matter if it's the first of the month or the 30th or anywhere in between. And so those are our dates. Now we've surveyed our clients and we also let them know anyone that didn't, that didn't respond, kind of falls into that anytime bucket cuz basically our thought is, you know, if, if, if they didn't, if they wanted them sooner, they would've let us know.

Alyssa:

Yeah. Yeah.

Brooke:

So it's really helped us in one, giving our team enough time to hit these deadlines at the volume that we're currently at. But it's also allowing us to prioritize our clients who do. Value that,

Alyssa:

prioritize it.

Brooke:

Yeah. And it's not to say too that some of our clients who say our 20th or any time, it doesn't mean they're gonna get them. Like they could get them on the 10th if they give us everything back by the 10th, right?

Alyssa:

Yeah.

Brooke:

Like we can still close them out sooner. But yeah. Anyways, that was, that was a really long explanation.

Alyssa:

No, that was great.

Brooke:

Was was that good? Okay.

Alyssa:

Yeah, it was. And one thing that I know I'll probably a lot of people are gonna deal with, This permission to allow yourself to do something different than what we're taught, right? Because a lot of the times when we go through all these programs, like me and you both, the way that we found each other was through bookkeeper launch. And so other people go through all these different programs, whether that's an accounting degree, different online courses, however it is that you learn. You're kind of just like, everyone just tells you it's the 10th and then you just like, oh, it's the 10th. But nobody really explains why, like why are we deciding on this? Like who's the one? Like I just wanna know who makes the rules around here, because I'd love to submit some rule changes.

Brooke:

I have some ideas. Yeah, I think that's what happens, right? Like you do things. Well, here's the thing. I think sometimes you take those rules and then they work, right? So you don't question them. But once they start not working is when you start to like question them and be like, why am I doing this? Like, what is the point? Like why? Why are we doing this? Does this even matter ? Is it making a difference? Like, or can we be doing this easier and saving ourselves some headache while still like accomplishing what we need to accomplish, you know?

Alyssa:

Yeah, exactly.

Brooke:

Yeah. I don't, I don't know who the heck sets the rules, but

Alyssa:

Right. I'm like, who? And we need to find out who this person is and not go knocking on their door, be like, hello? Excuse me. Do you have time to talk today? Yeah, we could chat about changing all these rules. I think it's interesting though, cause a lot of people. Just like the way that you grow up. You're just told to do something. When your parents, their response is always like, because I said so and it's, there's no real reason why until you're an adult and now you're dealing with trauma. Now you're in therapy.

Brooke:

I know.. Yeah. Daily. Alyssa: It's like, I need help over here. But I do, I think that a lot of people who are listening right now might be confused about what does this process look like. I can guarantee to anybody who's. Kind of trying to, or maybe is stuck in this position of, oh my God, I got so many clients, I can't even handle it. Maybe you don't have a team, or maybe you do no matter what that workload needs to be spread. As often as you possibly can, as thin across the board across the month. And I think a lot of the times people feel this pressure that, hey, I have to do it by this time and if I don't get it done, my clients are gonna hate me. Almost 95% of the times the clients don't even realize it's your own, like, self telling yourself like, I feel like this, so that it must be projecting like out there to the world and everyone's gonna feel it when they're probably like, I'm super happy with your service. I'm super happy with you coming late sometimes with reporting and I think that. Some people just don't like let that go. Yeah. Oh gosh. I feel like I have so much to say around that . I'm like, are we still talking about month end deadlines?

Alyssa:

Yeah. We could go anywhere we want.

Brooke:

Oh gosh. Well, okay. I guess one thing I would disclaimer is like, yes, I don't mind like sharing my due dates, but the same token, it's like I wouldn't want anyone to ever think like they would need to also hit those same due dates. Cuz not everyone's gonna have like the same structure. Like not anyone's gonna have the same structure, not anyone's gonna have the same team. Like the way, cuz we have a couple people that month end goes through. Some people only have one, right? So like, and some people have industries where they really do need them sooner or really don't care at all. Like, there's so many things. So I, that's always my disclaimers like, yes, those might be my due days. But those, that doesn't mean that's what's right for, for you. You kind of gotta work backwards and figure out like what works for your firm. But yeah. Going back to what you said about that pressure is man, dude, that's like such a real thing. I feel like that was probably one of my biggest aha moments of like this last year. I was like, dude, I like, I felt so much pressure for like, you know, hitting deadlines, doing this, this and that, like getting all the things done for these clients. Cuz I was like, this is what's important to them. But then I think when I like took a step back and also talked to my coach about

this, it was:

one, I realized this was totally just something made up in my head.

Alyssa:

Yeah.

Brooke:

Like it's completely self-induced pressure because Yes, it's like nine out of 10 times your clients are happy, they love you, you're providing a great service. So like, I, I don't know why we do it to ourselves. Maybe that's why we're business owners cause we're like perfectionists and we just want to people please and all the things, but I think that was. That ma-- that was like the biggest thing that made my life so much easier was like when I realized, okay, one, like things will get done and clients will be happy. Like yeah, and I don't need to like put all this pressure on myself to hit all of these. Unrealistic deadlines or whatever, because like 10 out of 10 times, the clients don't even, they really don't even know the difference. Like, I don't have any clients that are sitting there being like, oh, it's the 15th. Where's my financial? Like, you know what I mean?

Alyssa: It's like 6:

00 AM it's like 6 0 1. It's like, hello. Brooke: Yeah. Like it just doesn't happen. So, I don't know. Anyway, yeah, so that was my, that was my little 2 cents about that. Alyssa: Yeah, so honestly, if like like the disclaimer side of things. Like you have to go based off what fits good for you. I also know a lot of people who run their business by the 10th of the month and they're super happy, like a lot of different bookkeeping firm owners that I know., it works for them and that's okay. But it also depends on like what's your freedom and flexibility you want for your team, for yourself. I know that just from knowing you that you guys have a four day work week, and so for you it's like how can we make sure that we have that four day work week, have that Friday off, but still be able to create the same efficiency and the same output to the clients? And so for you, maybe this works a lot better because it helps to spread it across the month to hit that big goal, to be able to give yourself that four day work week for the team and yourself, you know?

Brooke:

Yeah, yeah. Exactly. And it also too, because for us it's important because like, I also want to make sure we're respecting our clients and their time because like I, we, we know that they're busy. I mean, that's why they, one of the reasons they hired us, right? Like, They're busy people and they're not just sitting there on their computer waiting for us to send them things to do. So, yeah. So when we do send out like, you know, requests for information for our month end or whatever it is that we need from them, we wanna make sure we're giving them adequate time to get it back to us. So that's also something that we built into that process because it's important cuz I don't wanna be like, Hey client, like we need X, Y, and Z and I need to by tomorrow in order to close out your books because

Alyssa:

Yeah, it's not realistic for them or even yourself.

Brooke:

Exactly.

Alyssa:

That would just, when you're sitting on the computer or you're expecting your team to wait all day for the client to finally email you over the information or submit your request.

Brooke:

Yeah, exactly. So it was, yeah, we definitely structured it that way to make sure that the team has enough time and the client has enough time. So that we can, you know, get all their, their things done.

Alyssa:

Yeah. So kind of going back to the dates, like the dates that you selected, I think it was what, the 15th, 20th and whenever like Right?

Brooke:

Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

Alyssa:

Uhhuh . So your rule around whenever, I'm assuming is not like whenever is in a hundred days from now, just so anybody listening, it's like within 30 days. Correct. Like within that month. Is that how that works?

Brooke:

Yeah, kind of. So if we actually look at it, if we looked at it like on, on a due date kind of format, this is what I would tell you. So our, like, if we looked at the date, we're actually sending financials out cuz-- So for our firm, we have two layers of people, or two people, right, who work in that and then we have a, we have a bookkeeper who essentially does all of the bookkeeping. They request the information from the climate or from the client.

Alyssa:

it's raining today. So I understand.

Brooke:

I looked outside, there's, we actually have climate for once. It's weird. We have weather. Anyway, so they request the information from the client and then they close it off and they hand it off to our account manager. Our account manager then takes it over; they do all of the quality control. And our account manager is really our client facing position. So they're the ones who are communicating with the client and, sending them their financials. So if we're looking at just the delivery side of the things, right? So when we actually send financials, the way it looks is our 15th clients get on the 15th, 20th, 20th, but anytime is actually the 21st. So, we structured it like that because, typically I will say nine outta 10 times, these clients are actually getting done sooner. Like they, they almost get done sooner. But if we're looking at our list of month-end clients, visually, you can see which ones come first if you sort it by the due date. Does that make sense?

Alyssa:

Yeah. Like you're pretty much putting in order of priority.

Brooke:

Yeah, it's, it's, yeah. It's in order of priority. So, but typically the rule though is for our Anytime clients, I mean, I wanna get them out by the 25th at the latest. Like we, the rule is you can't have an Anytime client that drags into the next month. Right? Like, so just because it's anytime means anytime that month essentially, but, My own personal--

Alyssa:

You have rules.

Brooke:

My own personal rule is yes. We don't wanna be, I, we don't wanna be sending clients' financials on the 31st and then hop right into their next month end.

Alyssa:

Yeah.

Brooke:

I mean, I guess we could, but that really doesn't happen. It really, it's not too often.

Alyssa:

So it's more of like a, we're we're using this for a project management side of things is really what it is. It's like, Hey, I kind of wanna get it out by here.

Brooke:

Yes.

Alyssa:

And it's also for the client too, to give them peace of mind.

Brooke:

Yeah. And because we actually do have a lot of our, like anytime clients who are super responsive, so a lot of them actually get it even before that. And that's the rule too, right? The sooner our clients get us stuff, the quicker we can close 'em out. We don't need--

Alyssa:

get it outta the way.

Brooke:

Yeah. Like we don't need to. For all the 15th ones to be done, to do the 20th, like whoever gets their stuff in quickest. Like you win. Alyssa: Yeah. Yeah. You win financials,

Alyssa:

you get a reward. Okay. For not only having to run a business, but also this cool little, you got it on time. Reward. Brooke: Yeah. Or start. Or start sending like virtual trophies or those little like trophies that they do for like the Grammys, but it says like number one dad and it's like a fake one. And

Brooke:

number one client. Alyssa: But to all the clients. Yeah

Alyssa:

but they don't need to know.

Brooke:

Well, if they listen to this podcast, they'll

Alyssa:

Right. Well, we won't tell them about this. Brooke: Okay. All right. We'll block 'em all. I'm just kidding.. Brooke: Oh, no! So I remember when you rolled this out cuz this was in, I wanna say it was a summer, right? Summer of last year was when you started rolling out. when you, the headache was there. I remember we talked about this headache was there and then you're like, how are we gonna solve this? Like how can I fix this? And then it was like, let's come up with a solution.

Brooke:

Mm-hmm.

Alyssa:

And you found the solution of like, let's first talk to the clients and survey them. How did the surveys go and how did you ask that question? I'm just very curious. I know I was involved in the process, but I'm very curious from your words.

Brooke:

Yeah, so this actually went through, like, we went through this process twice because like I said, I think the first time that we surveyed, I didn't quite think it through. So I feel like when we did that first survey, what, what due dates did we have? Gosh,

Alyssa:

wasn't it like the 10th? The 15th and the 20th?

Brooke:

No, cause we had got rid of the 10th, but we definitely, I think we had like the 13th, 15th and the 20th

Alyssa:

Uhhuh.

Brooke:

And then, oh, and then I think I sent out a survey and I think I added in that anytime option. And in my mind I thought, okay, well this is great cuz it'll help us stagger them more. Right? Having these four due dates. But then what I didn't realize is one, like some of these due dates are really close together, so it's like why separate them at all? And then two, it just became really confusing for the team. Like there's just too many due dates. That's really what it came down to. And then also we didn't get a response from a lot of our clients, so we were kind of left with, well shoot, what do we do with them? Because at that time I did not communicate. I didn't say, Hey, if we don't get a response, this is the bucket you'll fall into.

Alyssa:

Yeah.

Brooke:

So then I was like, well shoot. What do we do with them?? Alyssa: Yes. Like I guess we have to keep sending 'em on whatever date they were currently at.

Alyssa:

Yeah.

Brooke:

Which may or may not have fallen into those buckets that I just, designated. So it was a little funky. And finally, after some thought, And, you know, working with my team on this, we decided that, okay, you know what, we're gonna do one more survey, and we're going to consolidate it to just three dates and we're going to also give us more time because like you said, we have four day work weeks and sometimes like the first ball's on a Friday or a Saturday or a Sunday. So it limits the number of working days that we have in the week, which then limits the amount of time we can give the client to get us back information and also limits the time that we have to complete it, right? So, based off of the discussion with the team, we decided that we would go with the 15th, cuz no matter what day the first falls on, it still gives us enough time to do it.

Alyssa:

To make it happen.

Brooke:

How many clients that we have? Yeah, so the 15th, the 20th, and then anytime. And this time we sent it out in a survey. So we actually just rolled it out. It's January, so this month is actually the first month that we rolled it out into these three dates. But I can already tell you from like an operation standpoint, it's already going so much smoother and you can already feel like how much pressure it lifted up off the team.

Alyssa:

Yeah.

Brooke:

And it was also really surprising to see like some of our, like we have some really big clients who I would without a doubt be like, oh, they need their stuff sooner.

Alyssa:

Yeah.

Brooke:

And some of them were like, no, we don't care anytime. So yeah, it was kind of interesting. But, anyways. So we sent out an emailed survey

Alyssa:

mm-hmm.

Brooke:

and basically just said, Hey guys. You know, in order to continue to basically serve our clients the best that we can, you know, we are restructuring the way we send financials and we wanna know like, what's important to you, And we gave them basically three options.

Alyssa:

Yeah.

Brooke:

Tell us which option, tell us which date you want your financials by.

Alyssa:

Yeah.

Brooke:

And then a lot of 'em responded and we, in this email we did actually, we gave them the, Hey, if we do not receive a response by this in this date, You will be defaulted into the anytime option unless you know, unless you

Alyssa:

let us otherwise.

Brooke:

Yeah, exactly. So that way it gave us clear direction on what to do with the ones we didn't hear from

Alyssa:

Yeah.

Brooke:

Unlike last time. Alyssa: And what about like your contract? Cuz do you have somewhere in your contract that states like the due date that you-- No? No, it's not in our contract at all.

Alyssa:

Okay. It just says, so protects you kind of

Brooke:

Yeah, exactly. The contract just states like,

Alyssa:

scope of work in general.

Brooke:

Yeah.

Alyssa:

Like what we're gonna do for you as your bookkeeping firm.

Brooke:

Exactly. And if they get monthly financials, quarterly financials, or no financials at all.

Alyssa:

Yeah, it's always so interesting cuz you've always dealt like involved your team and I, I know this because you involve your team in so much stuff and I think a lot of people are so scared, not scared, I don't know if that's the right word, but nervous to kind of bring your team. It's like, aren't I supposed to know all the answers to everything? Like why would I as like the boss or the leader, not know what I want out of things. I really like that you collaborate with them and like what's their experience been with like you opening up the floor to not just like your ideas and Brooke's way of doing things, but also like the team's way of doing things.

Brooke:

Oh my gosh, dude, I love my team. I want their input on literally everything. and I think it's so important because especially too, as you really step into the owner role and you step out of the doing things role, you really kind of lose a little bit of perspective on how things are actually working. So it's really like, if I'm gonna make changes to something that our bookkeepers are doing, like I wanna know for sure that it's gonna benefit them because even though I might think it is, I could be totally wrong. So I wanna make sure that when we make these changes, I want the, like, approval from the team. Not to say I, I need approval for everything. Right? There are some things that I will, I guess go for,

Alyssa:

yeah.

Brooke:

Without it, but with things like this, I, yeah, I try to get their input on everything that, on any big changes that we make, because essentially my, I think my role as the business owner is to facilitate helping them grow and helping them succeed in their roles. So meaning, so if we're making changes, I wanna make sure these changes facilitate that and help them succeed and they'll know. Like they'll know if it's something that's gonna help them or not, and they tell me it, which is great. They'll be like, ah, that's not really gonna do much for me. I'm like, okay, good. Well now I know not to waste my energy and put more. Put more into it.

Alyssa:

Resources.

Brooke:

Yeah,

Alyssa:

resources, time, money, team, everything.

Brooke:

Yeah. Yeah.

Alyssa:

Into something.

Brooke:

Exactly. Exactly. So yeah, I think they're a very super, crucial part of the business. And then the way it's grown, like, oh my gosh, So even like, so my, you know, so my senior bookkeeper, Todd, he is so brilliant at like tech stuff and all of our apps and things like way better than I am. And that's the thing too, is like your team's gonna be better at a lot of things that you aren't. So they're gonna have all these great ideas. And so it's like, there's so many times where I'm like, man, why didn't I talk to. Why did I talk to so-and-so about this sooner? I could've, like, cuz they have so many great ideas that like, I just can't come up with, I can't, I have good ideas too, but they're different, right? Like, it's just so valuable. So yeah, I mean he like, oh my gosh, he totally revamped the way we do, like our whole, like our Notion. And I freaking like it just made such a huge improvement. So yeah, I think if you have a team, it's super important to involve them in what you're doing because not only is it gonna make your company better, it's gonna make your life easier, but, I think it's good for them too because then they feel like they're being heard and that their opinion matters and it it should matter.

Alyssa:

Yeah, and it's funny because if anybody here who went to BKX, if you wanna know who Todd is, he was the other lovely purple shirted Workflow Queen member at the booth. He was so generous to help my company to sponsor cause we sponsored BKX last year when you spoke. Actually, I unfortunately had to pull out of the event I was supposed to speak Super bummed to not see everybody, but it was the right choice for myself. And so I sent my, my team member, my former team member there, and also Todd went. And Todd is just-- he is like the best, like he's just a whole person in a bucket. Like

Brooke:

I don't even know what that means.

Alyssa:

Me neither. But I'm sure someone might know him, and resonate with it. It's like he's just full of like, he's just smart, he's hilarious. Like Todd's good people. And I just love how much him just alone, and also anybody else on your team? I've met a lot of your team members

Brooke:

mm-hmm.

Alyssa:

Are just so supportive and it's like they, they live and breathe team Clarity bookkeeping. And I think that's really hard to find. And I think the reason why they're, they're bleeding it and they're every single day like all about it is cuz you've infused it. And I think that that the fact that you have changed so many major things like this month end close, like that's literally what our businesses run off of. Like if anybody here is listening has a bookkeeping firm like. That is literally your life. Like your lifeline is literally your month end, close every month. And if you're not involving your team on that and asking them their feedback, how they feel, you might not realize that they're actually drowning. But if you're not giving them the open space and the open environment to be able to speak up about it, you can lose really, really good team members by not listening.

Brooke:

Yeah. And I'm, I'm super grateful and I will say I think sometimes too, especially with new team members, or if this is something new that you're implementing where you're getting their feedback, it might take a little bit to get them to open up, right. And feel comfortable that, to share that kind of information with you, right. Because they just wanna do their, do a good job and they might not wanna rock the boat or they might not know how you might react to certain feedback you can also, if it's something you're worried about, you can also create like, some kind of anonymous form

Alyssa:

Yeah.

Brooke:

Where they can provide feedback if that's something you wanna implement. but yeah, I, I think it takes a little bit of nurturing, but yes, I think like that's definitely something I consistently try to emphasize or pull out of my team also. Hey guys, I wanna do this. What do you think about this? Or what's working, what's not working? And their feedback has made our processes so much more efficient cuz they'll say, Hey, you know you wanted to do this but like, I don't know why we're doing it this way cuz we were already doing that somewhere else. Or like, they're constantly giving me this feedback. That's really helped make things far more efficient, because like I said, I don't do the bookkeeping anymore. Right.

Alyssa:

Yeah. You're not in the day to day, you're not in the weeds.

Brooke:

Yeah. Yeah. So I don't necessarily know what's gonna work or not work, and

Alyssa:

yeah,

Brooke:

last time I was doing the bookkeeping, we didn't have nearly as many clients, so, you know, it, there's different problems at different levels, so Yeah. Yeah. It's their, their feedback is super, super important.

Alyssa:

Yeah. It's so funny because this morning we have every, our team meeting is on Thursdays, so I had my team meeting this morning and me, right now it's just down to me and Mackenzie as a full-time people on the team. And, so we're on this call today and we're talking about one of our processes that we have, and we are picking through everything and as we are going through each and every task. So we have it inside of Asana, we're going through each little piece, and I go, Mackenzie, what about this? Like, I'm trying to trim, like that's my new big goal for 2023 is to trim, a lot of the excess as you grow and as you get to become a bigger business, you have more team members, there is so much crap and it's really becomes crap. And so my mission this year, in the next quarter, cause I wanna work to a four day work week as well, is to eventually like get rid of all that stuff and trim it. So we're going through this and she goes, yeah, this takes me literally two to three hours a week to do. And I'm like, well, what is it? She's like, well, I have to reread all of our blogs to make sure all of our links are are right and all these different things and reread it because that's what someone assigned to her. And granted, she's been doing this for so long and I was like, I can't believe that. I'd never even caught it. So we were talking and I was like, we don't need to be doing this. So just today we saved literally almost two to three hours a week for one role just by talking.

Brooke:

Yeah.

Alyssa:

To the team member and asking them questions and saying like, let's review this. We got rid of so many like random things today, like, and it was so. Nice to see how involved they are because I don't see it, I don't do our blogs, like I don't touch any of that process. So to see someone who does every single day come up to me and say like, this is literally a waste of my time.

Brooke:

Yes, dude, I love that. I think it's like so important to, the busier you get is like to like literally question like every little thing. Like, why are we doing this? Does it serve a purpose? Like this one, I'll tell you, this one will be controversial and I only say that cause I've been in some, some, some Facebook threads about it where it's been controversial, but like in our month end, this, I think sometime it might have been in this last year, maybe a little bit longer, whatever, a year, year and a half. we cut out saving statements, so we used to always save all of our clients' bank and credit card statements in their Google Drive folder. And I actually had one of my bookkeepers say like, why do we do this? Like, do we ever need them? And I was like, Hmm, good question. Like, I think we did it right because that's what we were taught. You saved the statements. And, but when I really thought about it deep down, I was like, well, you know, Like, yes, occasionally I have had to pull old statements, but I can always just do it just from their account. Like, we don't actually need to save them. And it's taking, oh my gosh, it's totally taking additional hours every week just to save them for like, no one's ever gonna look at this folder ever, ever again. This was controversial because

Alyssa:

I was gonna say, cause I'm on the backend,

Brooke:

I know

Alyssa:

I'm on the other side of that one

Brooke:

because other bookkeeping firms. Yes. And that and that again though, right? It's like you've gotta do what's right for your firm.

Alyssa:

Yeah.

Brooke:

And so if though, if like right, if say we made that change and later down the road it bit me in the *** I'd change my process again. I guess that's kind of how it goes, right? Like you do something when it works until it doesn't and then you fix it. Like, but yeah, for us I was like, dude, this is not serving a purpose. It's an extra unnecessary step in our process. Literally doesn't do anything. It, there was no purpose in doing it. Of course, we have exceptions to that rule. Like we have our own exceptions. Like for, say we have a client that has an account that like-- Alyssa: shut down or they closed it. Wouldn't that be one of those, like, they'd have to literally go into their bank to get that information. You couldn't even get it as an accountant. Yeah. But, yeah. But why would you, I guess I don't, don't see why we would need it at, at that point. Do you know what I mean?

Alyssa:

Oh. Cause you would've already reconciled. You would've already

Brooke:

We're already reco.

Alyssa:

Look at you. Yes. Smart cookie.

Brooke:

Yes. But yes, occasionally we do have clients that maybe have more finicky banks or credit unions where maybe they don't keep statements for a long time. You know what I mean? And so occasionally we will save things if we know it's gonna be hard to access, and we may actually need to access it later, but, 99% of the statements are not saved anymore.

Alyssa:

I can see why you're saying this is a controversial topic because I feel like it is. It's one of those ones where it's like you kind of have to understand it, but sometimes when someone explains it to you, cuz the way you're kind of explaining it, it's like, Huh. Maybe I should rethink that for Magnetic and I should probably think about like how we're doing that. I mean, like it makes sense when you're doing like a cleanup and you need them to send you like

Brooke:

Yes.

Alyssa:

A few years worth of statements because you're gonna need that data, you know?

Brooke:

Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. So again, I feel like when it serves a purpose, yeah, safe statements, keep 'em, do all the things. But like on an ongoing basis, like we haven't found any benefit of it. Like there's never been a time where I needed to pull a statement I saved in a folder. That I couldn't have pulled just from logging in online

Alyssa:

into the bank.

Brooke:

Yeah. Yeah. So anyway, it's, yes, controversial, but again, it's one of those things where it's like sometimes you do things cause it's what you're told to do. It's just, it may be standard,

Alyssa:

you don't question it

Brooke:

standard. It may be standard in your industry, but just start. But, and it works too. Again, these things work that was never a problem until you get to a certain.. Like until you start hitting that next level of growth. Right?

Alyssa:

50 clients, I can't imagine. 50 clients and you've got over there.

Brooke:

Yeah.

Alyssa:

And then you're like statement, statement statements and then chasing them down. Well, unfortunately you do have to actually chase 'em down from the clients, cuz you're kind of gonna need 'em.

Brooke:

Yeah.

Alyssa:

If you have to. If you don't have access, is what I mean,

Brooke:

Right if, yeah. Yeah. So yeah, I think about it, right? 50 clients, each client has, let's call it two to 15 banking credit card accounts a month. Oh my gosh, that's so much time each month to save all of that stuff like, anyways, so again,

Alyssa:

Controversial.

Brooke:

I'm not saying, yeah, controversial. And I'm not saying do what I do, but I am saying it's good to like sometimes question.

Alyssa:

Question.

Brooke:

Yeah. Just question it. Like, why are we doing it? Alyssa: Yeah. Like why is it a way that, why is everyone telling us? Well, I think this is all really interesting. I know a lot of people listening are gonna be like, wow, I'm gonna, I think the whole intention of what everyone's gonna pull away from this ultimately is like, I hope everyone questions what they're doing. And not in a place where like, don't get obsessed with everybody about like, questioning every little thing. Cause there are some things, like Brooke said, that this is the way we're supposed to do things cuz we need to do them. Like, you shouldn't be saving your, your passcodes on a fricking sticky note. They should be actually in a password saver. Like, don't question that, just do it. Like, there are things that you should always be doing in a certain way, but we challenge you to actually question what you're doing and the way that people have taught you because, sometimes there's a better way or a more efficient way or something that's gonna help ease the pain for not only yourself, your clients, and maybe even a team if you have one and like you questioned your month end. And I think a lot of people, it's gonna blow a lot of people's minds cause they just don't think to question that. And so for any takeaway for the long term, so one, you pretty much like determined the dates that you guys wanted to offer to your clients, essentially. Then you sent out your survey to your clients. Kind of got some responses, but then nudged them a bit more and finally got 'em. Yes, yes,

Alyssa:

you've got those surveys. you can do that through a Google form. By the way, if anybody wants to know what that process looks like. It can also be a simple email. Earlier today, Brooke did share a really cool. Lovely little tool. I think it's an add-on through Gmail that it like essentially gives you buttons, right? That a client can select the dates, right?

Brooke:

Yeah, so it's actually like this, I think it's this whole thing. It's called Cloud HQ I think it's actually a Chrome extension, and they do, they have a lot of Gmail features that can integrate with your Gmail, but one of them is their, I think they just call it like Gmail polls and surveys. So it's actually a survey that like just links inside of the body of the email. So, we used that this last round and I actually loved it. I, one, I thought it was easier than creating a form. And like we also got more responses using that, and it was just really easy to use and I, I liked it a lot.

Alyssa:

Yeah, it was really cool when you were showing it earlier today. So you get the survey, you get all the results, and after that, are you just like jumping in next day, changing your project management system, or is that something that's like slowly rolled that over time? And that, what was that process like?

Brooke:

Yes.

Alyssa:

To give someone

Brooke:

so this last round that we did it, we sent this email, I believe in December, I wanna say early December. We also sent some other things with this email, just kind of updates and other things,

Alyssa:

hours of operations, all that process.

Brooke:

Yeah, yeah. Just some other things that went into that email as well. But a part of it, and I believe somewhere in the subject, basically said like, Pick a date. Like, tell us what you want. Like

Alyssa:

Yeah.

Brooke:

Something that let our clients know like they, we were asking for, for an action from them, but yes. But, I think we basically said, you know, Hey, starting January, 2023, we're changing some due dates, right? So you'll see different ones coming this next month. We gave them enough time. I ba I think I said, Hey, you know, in two weeks. Or please basically click one of these options and

Alyssa:

yeah,

Brooke:

please click it by no later than this date.

Alyssa:

Yeah.

Brooke:

If we haven't re received a response by this date, you'll be defaulted into this, month end bracket of any time, right? The any time due date. So that's kind of how we did it. So then it still gave us time., to roll it out into our project management system.

Alyssa:

Mm-hmm.. Yeah. It's not an easy feat. People! This was months, months of time going by and making these changes and collaborating with the team and, you know, it's worth it though. These types of changes, they beneficial.

Brooke:

Oh, totally. Yeah. Yeah. It's so great. Especially too, like this month, right? We had a holiday at the very beginning of the month. So it's, I can already feel. Just how much easier it is. And I think my team loves it and it's so much easier to look at, like from my point of view, right? Because I keep tabs on making sure things are getting done when they're supposed to be getting done. And it's so much easier when things are more uniform.

Alyssa:

Yeah.

Brooke:

Because we can say, Hey guys, for clients that are due by on the 15th, please make sure you send out your content scenario request by, the seventh, right?

Alyssa:

Yeah.

Brooke:

Or whatever date that we have it. So it just makes things more structured and more systemized and it's just, It's just easier.

Alyssa:

It's just the best/ well, thank you so much, Brooke, for sharing all the things month end close and just little tidbits of things here and there, like I just love all the conversations we always have. They're just so good and there's so many wins and takeaways that we have. One of the questions I want you to kind of answer though is from someone who's a newbie, what piece of advice would you give them from the beginning stages?

Brooke:

Oh dear lord, um. Oh, that's such a good one. what piece of advice for a newbie? Oh, I think it would just be like, you don't need to like, You don't need to have everything like figured out. You know what I mean?

Alyssa:

Yeah.

Brooke:

Like all the stuff. And I feel like anytime you talk to someone or you listen to someone who maybe is further into their business than you are, like it can be intimidating and you feel like, oh man, I'm like really failing cause Like, I don't know what I'm doing. I don't have these systems. I'm not doing X, Y, and Z. But it's so important to remember that like, like neither did anyone else at some point. Like all the things and everywhere that we, that we get to, and that newbies will get to too, cuz you'll like, they'll all get to this level. Right? It's like you figure it out as you go. You make mistakes and then you just learn from them. And then as the business grows, you are just met with new challenges and you just figure them out. You just roll with the punches. You don't need to do anything extra, like just, you just keep going with your business. You just keep showing up.

Alyssa:

Yeah.

Brooke:

You just keep showing up and questioning. There you go.

Alyssa:

That's a good one.

Brooke:

Yeah. Showing up

Alyssa:

word of the year

Brooke:

questioning, everything. Word of the year.

Alyssa:

Yeah, word of the year: question everything. That's not one word, but we get the point.. Brooke: Yeah,. Alyssa: It's kinda, we We can just pretend like it's just one word.

Brooke:

Yeah, exactly. Yes. But I, yeah, so I, yeah, I would just say, just keep showing up. Yeah. Like that's really all you can do, you know?

Alyssa:

I love it. Well, speaking of showing up, where can people come to connect with you?

Brooke:

Um, breakthrough. That's a, yeah. Breakthrough is probably the best, uh, that is the best place to get in touch with me. That's a good question. I dunno, I don't really have anyone that like reaches out to me, like. Alyssa: Well, shameless plug So if you want to get some lovely inspiration and hear all the things that Brook has to say and just be involved in her circle. We do have a program called Breakthrough for Bookkeepers and Accountants. It's incredible. It's surrounded by people all going from the next level step, ready to just break through-- no pun intended-- to the next level, and really just get your firm up and running, talking about month and close kind of stuff, like we're talking about team building and all these fun things. So I am honored, obviously. And I'll probably call you right after the we end this lovely podcast interview. I figured

Alyssa:

Thank you so much for being here today and for anybody, if you wanna leave a review, go ahead and subscribe below. And also leave us a lovely review and tell us how much that one you are honored to have, Brooke, and on any of your takeaways that you have and anything that you might have learned. So thanks everyone and we'll talk soon.

Brooke:

Thanks alyssa.