Conquering Workflows & Systems For Bookkeepers & Accountants | with Alyssa Lang (Workflow Queen)

Identifying Team Issues and Making Strategic Changes for Success

• Alyssa Lang • Season 1 • Episode 73

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In this solo episode, Alyssa Lang answers a question that was submitted by one of our Instagram followers who asked, “How do you decide when and how to make changes in your team when things aren’t working out?” and that is exactly what is covered in this episode.

In this episode you’ll hear:

  • How to identify when things are not working out with a team member
  • How to help set up your team for success and measure their KPIs to ensure they are on track
  • How to identify what areas your team needs improvement to succeed
  • How to hire the best fit team member and let go of the ones that do not support the company

Resources mentioned in this episode:

⚙️ Notion

💻 Breakthrough for Bookkeepers & Accountants

☎️ Book a 15 minute consult call to discuss what program is the right fit for you and your firm

Thanks for listening. If this episode inspired you in some way, take a screenshot of you listening on your device and post it to your Instagram stories and tag me, @workflowqueen

For more information about the Conquering Workflows & Systems for Bookkeepers & Accountants Podcast or interest in our programs or mentoring visit our resources below:

Visit our website: workflowqueen.com

Check out our courses: workflowqueen.com/courses

Follow the Blog: workflowqueen.com/blog

Connect on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/alyssa-lang-wq

Connect on Instagram: instagram.com/workflowqueen

Connect on Facebook: Facebook.com/workflowqueen

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Hey everyone and welcome back to yet another episode I'm super excited because today I'm answering a burning question that someone had submitted on our workflow, queen Instagram. So thank you so much to Karen, which I'm going to butcher the username. So please forgive me, but I think it's boa Kaizen. So thank you so much for submitting this question. And I am so happy to dive into this, and I know that you're going to help so many others who are burning to know the answer to this question. So the question that Karen submitted was how to decide when and how to make changes in your team. When things aren't working out, this is such a great topic, and I cannot wait to dive in. So four points I'm going to be covering today in this episode is How to question and stop and say, why isn't it working out? Also what is not working out. So really the identification of what's actually not working. So that way we can track the right metrics and make sure to avoid the same mistakes in the future. We're also going to dive into the really hard conversation of letting go of team members, whether they're contractors or employees. And then lastly, we're going to be talking about how to avoid making the same mistake and finding the next best person by making sure to layer in new changes within the business and within your hiring process and onboarding process. To make sure that you have a great team member on board. So thank you so much, Karen, once again, if you guys ever have any topics, suggestions for the podcast or a burning question that you want me to answer, then please feel free to email us at support@workflowqueen.com or just message us at workflow queen on Instagram. And I'm so excited and I hope you enjoy today's episode. Hey everyone. And welcome back. I'm so excited because in today's episode, I actually am going to be answering a question that someone submitted over on our Instagram, which you can come follow us at workflow queen on Instagram. And I really, really appreciate when you guys submit things that you want me to talk about, because I really would love to be supporting you as much as possible. So if you ever have any submissions, suggestions, or maybe a dying and burning question that you really want me to. Answer here on the podcast. Please feel free to reach out to us@workflowqueenoninstagramoremailourteamsupportatworkflowqueen.com. And it always gets to me, my team always lets me know what you guys recommend. So if you want to hear your questions be answered, this is the perfect opportunity. So the question I'm going to be answering today is actually from someone over that follows us on our Instagram and her name is Karen. Her username. I'm gonna try my best to make sure I'm saying this correctly, but I think it's boa Kaizen. Something similar to that I will make sure to tag you in the show notes. So thank you so much for submitting this question. So her question was how to decide when and how to make changes in your team when things aren't working out. I think this is such an incredible topic because I feel like this comes up a lot and I think it comes up a lot, mostly because. We hire these people. We get really excited about bringing these people along and we start working with them and then we realize like, oh my God, they just can't keep up with us. Are just like, they're not super fast. Or like all these reasons why it might not be working out. And so it makes you think like, well, what's the process? What does that look like? How can I move forward? What can I do about it? Right. And so I just kind of want to share some of my 2 cents in my insight. Always take it with a grain of salt, because remember, this is my suggestions and just from my experience and what I've kind of gone through myself. So just take it for what it is, but what I plan to kind of cover today in today's episode is first of all, really covering what is happening there, that why it's not working out. So a lot of the times we think, well, it's just not working out. I'm just throwing my hands up in the air. I'm just over it. Like I'm over it. I'm over trying to control them. I'm just over it. Or maybe there's a real reason. Maybe the person just disappeared or they're just terrible at their job. Like whatever that looks like. We want to dig into why it's not working out to make sure that we don't repeat the same issue again, that we're going to be covering today on the podcast what isn't working out. So really quarterly identifying. What is the real problem of what is not working out. So like peeling back those layers. And then we're going to talk about the hard conversation of letting people go. This is hard. And it also depends on if they're an employee or contractor things work a little bit different. So we'll kind of dive into that today. And then also the notch thing I'm going to be covering today is finding the next best person. So. I'm just going to preface from the very beginning as I kind of cover all four of these topics. I just want to preface by saying like, Just because like you found something that hasn't been working for, you. And you decide, okay, I'm going to let them go and find someone new. You're just going to repeat a vicious cycle. If you don't identify what is wrong, why wasn't it working out? How can we fix those core issues then move forward so that we can progress. It's the same way as like relationships. So think about someone that you might've dated or someone in your family that might be toxic or whatever. Sometimes we repeat the same pattern over and over again. Until it becomes so uncomfortable that we're like, we need to make a change. And so like, if you've seen this pattern kind of repeating itself that like, oh, it's just not working out, throwing my hands up in the air. I'm just going to let them go and then just hire a new person. But you find that cycle happening over and over again, because trust me, I've seen this with like a lot of my students in my programs, like. When they talk about hiring and it's just like the cycle. And then I see them like six months later, same process. They're like bringing someone on, they get excited and then they'd start to train them. And they're like, oh, it's just not working out, firing them, letting them go. And then finding someone new. And it's like this cycle that I see them go through. And that sometimes I have to stop them and say, what is really going on here? what does that saying? Where people say like, If it happens over and over again, maybe it's not a then problem. It's a you problem. So I'm going to be super real with you guys. I know that you know that I am so honest. And straightforward. And I don't mean this in any non-chain way. I just genuinely want you to self-reflect on what is the big problem here? So I kind of really want to start with that today. So I want to talk about why isn't this working out. And the biggest question I want you to sit with. And even if that means pausing this episode and just for five minutes and thinking through this, if you're in this position right now, where you're unhappy with the team member, and you're just. Done, whether it's a contractor, maybe it's an outsource company. I literally just let go of an outsource company that, you know, wasn't a contractor or direct employee. Like they were their own company. Like you have to identify, why was it not working out? So pause, is it because of you or because of them? Your natural reaction will be. to blame everyone else. It's normal. We're human. We all do it. But I want, I really want you to be super intentional. And whether that means like, for like five minutes, just take out a piece of paper. And just write out what is really not to working out. Why is it, are you just frustrated with them? Is there some sort of resentment, is there some sort of disconnect between the conversations that you have? Do they not value the same things as you? I want you to be intentional about this and really dive deep. Into really identifying what the problem is.'cause I can tell you from my own experience, I had to set my own ego aside as the business owner. And actually take a step back and say, what is really going on that why this team members not working out for me? Did I lack providing information to them? Did I not do a good job of getting them up to speed? Did I not make them aware of the softwares that we use? Did I expect too much of them? Did I put them on a high pedestal and expect them to do all these things that they're not capable of? It's okay to think through these things. It's okay to really reflect on this. There's nothing wrong with taking that step back. I will tell you I'll share a story. here at workflow queen, we had an employee, she was incredible. And she had started with the company and she'd been with the company for, I want to say about four months. And things were just not working out. And I could not explain at that time I had an operations manager and I would talk to her and say, I just like, something is not connecting. And like the first reaction is always, just let it go. Like let it go. I just want to move on and just like, you know, replace them right. But then I was like, I really need to be real with myself. Like, was it me? Or was it a them thing? And so I took a step back and said, you know what? It was actually a fault of mine. For me not getting them set up properly correctly. Nor did they have the right resources information, nor did it give them the confidence to get the work done? And so with that, I stepped back and said, you know what? I didn't train them properly. I didn't give them the information. I was getting frustrated that like, they wouldn't be naming things the way that I wanted to be named, like they weren't doing the SLPs correctly, or they were just like avoiding tasks in Asana or like, whatever it was that the issue was. So what I did, and this is gonna sound really crazy because there is a moment where you'll just like, innately, know that, like, it wasn't a, you, it was a then thing. And then you want to just let them go. What do they say? hire slow fire quick. And I do believe in that. So like, if you do really think after you've reflected and thought like, no, it's 100% them, then that might be a really good choice. But what I want you to do is like how I did it was I took a step back and what I did was I ended up creating an internal training program. This was like the first idea I'd ever had that like really was such a game changer for me. And so I worked in like a credit union. My second job I ever worked. And when I worked at the credit union, the first, like two weeks of working there, I went to like an internal training program. It was like about the company. About their values, how to access their own SOP is like, what are the rules and regulations of the company? Like how to scan checks? Like there was like this whole training program that nobody was hands-on with me at the end of the day, I did like parts of my day, like getting hands on experience, but like the majority of the time was spent with nobody having to walk me through. I got to take quizzes while also like going through this internal training program. And it dawned on me, it hit me. I was like, why don't I create that for my own freaking company? Like I never thought of it. Right. And so it was because of this employee. I almost wanted to let her go, but I was like, I'm going to give her a chance. It's my fault. I didn't get her what she needed. So then I started filming loom videos. I involved my on my operations manager at that time and said, let's build this thing. So we built like an internal training program. That's four weeks that our team goes through that essentially teaches them from a to Z about the company. Now, when you hear that, don't be overwhelmed and think you have to do the same thing. It does not need to be complicated. You do not need to film your own internal training program. You do not need to do that. What you could do is just have a very strategic agenda. That's like, okay, for the first five minutes of us meeting, when they get onboarded as a team member, I'm going to cover loom and how we store videos. Next one, I'm going to talk about this and how we do our bookkeeping concepts. Like this is where they can find the chart of accounts be strategic, because the problem is we all ping-pong right. So we get on these calls with these new team members. We're so excited. We just want to outsource, and they have, you know, 10 years of experience as a bookkeeper. But here's the thing we expect that they just, because they have the experience means that they can just jump in your business. And that's such a freaking lie. If you put me whoever's listening right now in your business right now, I would fail. And the reason why is, unless you are training me on how you like to do things specific to your company. And so the internal training program was a really big aha moment for me. And so that's when I decided to bring that concept into breakthrough. So breakthrough is my big group coaching program. I actually give the setup of the, the, uh, internal training program and teach our students how to create one for themselves and when to do it, because I always recommend don't just do it right away. You might be really overwhelmed. You might not need it. You might only want to hire one person. So there might not be a point of it. But if you're constantly needing to hire new people, you're constantly growing and you're scaling, then you might want to consider it. So, because of that ego, like I had to like, let, go of my ego and really just take a step back and say, is it me or them? So with the identification that it was me, we created the internal training program and we contacted the team member and said, look, I failed you as the owner of this company, I failed. To bring you up to speed and it's making it really hard for you to be able to be successful in your role. I recognize that, and this isn't in no way, shape or form. Like, I don't want you to be offended by this, but I'm going to ask you to take off one week. I think we had our take two weeks off. I, and I said, two weeks, we paid her for it. We actually gave her two weeks off and we were like, for two weeks, we're going to build an internal training program. So by the time you come back, you're going to get re onboarded into the company. And I said, and I understand that this might feel like an ego hit, but it's not. It's actually an opportunity for you to set the right tone after we have failed to do this for you for the past four months. So we let her have the two weeks off, she came back and she did the internal training program. She changed. Everything changed at the end of that, I was so much happier about her quality of work. That she knew where everything was. She knew where to store everything. And how did you SLPs and do all these things? All the things that I was looking at her saying, wow, she's failing. Wow. She's not good enough. It was all because of me. So before you try to go fire someone and say, it's not working out. Be honest with yourself. And that's my God gotta be 100% my recommendation. My other thing I want to point out to what are you doing? Performance reviews. So for any of you who do have team members I recommend doing this maybe even on a quarterly or maybe by annual basis where you're essentially, you're doing some sort of a review. If you're in breakthrough and you're listening, we do provide performance reviews for you guys and what that process looks like. So I'll drop a link to a breakthrough. If you're interested in joining us in our group coaching program. If you're already a student, then you can go find that in your regular portal. You will find performance reviews and how to analyze them and all that fun stuff. So the performance reviews gives you an opportunity to say, this is what I expect of you in your role. And some of you might be like, well, I just expect them to do like the books. Okay. That's great. But like, what are your real performance is that you need them or like things that you need them to hit as they journey through working with you? So the performance review is especially as like, let's just say that they're doing month end and they constantly have errors every time that they reconcile or like something you need to be documenting these things. So for us, it's in notion we have like a profile per team member inside of notion. We make note of any of the mistakes that they make like in the company, but then we have a separate spreadsheet for any errors that were made through, out doing the actual bookkeeping work. Because we want to have transparency on the team of like the KPIs, which are key performance indicators to showcase like how many errors that they're making every single month. So we can see if it's improving or it's getting worse. And that way we can make decisions off of it. So the performance reviews acts as like a way to say, instead of just letting someone go, have you ever even stopped? To say something and you might be responding with me. This is what I hear every single time for our students in our coaching calls. Well, Alyssa, I have brought it up yet, but have you brought it up in a way that they can like refer back to it and really think through it process, it really review the information versus just being frustrated on a call and just saying something. So I want you to really think through, have you truly given them some sort of a performance review? You can put them on, what's called a performance. What do they call it? Pips performance improvement plan. Which means that essentially you're saying your messing up and I need you to do X, Y, Z in order for me to understand and know over the next 30 to 90 days, whatever feels good for you. You need to be at this place, but you need to give them clarity. You need to give them the information that they need to know that they're succeeding. And then you would meet with them, maybe biweekly just to see their KPIs and see their improvement. Ask them if they need any help. How can you help them out? Maybe they're just lacking confidence. You'd be surprised how many team members don't want to mess up because they really care about the job that they don't want to fail you. And so they, they lose their confidence in that process. So then they constantly have to ask you questions or they have to always get your validation. And so how can we create maybe more resources and more ways to give them that confidence? I can tell you from experience that one thing that really helps me team with confidence is when I go on vacation, because like, if I'm not accessible, Double, they will figure it out. They will literally figure it out. Right. And so I'm, I'm literally leaving like today actually to go make a journey down to lax or tomorrow I'm flying out to Europe for three weeks. And it's really cool because my team is actually like, I'm so excited because they cannot get ahold of me. Like they know that they are not allowed to reach out to me unless it's an emergency. We have very strict rules around this. And they're going to be able to figure everything out. Everything's going to be fine. So the big thing and the big message here for this first point is what's not working out. Did you reflect on if it's actually you or if it's them, are you doing performance reviews and are you even communicating the issues that are coming up or are you just bottling them up? You might think that you're talking about them, but maybe you're just complaining to your spouse about it. So it feels like you've talked to them about it, but maybe you never did. So that's another point. So the next bullet point that I want to kind of cover today is what isn't working out. So really the core identification. If this team members not working out for you, what is it? So if you're like, I don't know, it just doesn't feel good. That's not good enough. And like, that's okay too. Cause like I do know deep down that I have a gut feeling that is very powerful. And I just know when something's not right, right. But I will also acknowledge the logistics to it of like, but why isn't it when it comes to like firing and letting someone go. It's a pretty big deal. So I will take a step back and say, well, it's because there hasn't been resolved. So I'll give you a great example. I recently let go of a company that I was outsourcing certain things. I'm just going to keep it. Very vague here. And this literally happened yesterday and I had to let them go. It was me and my assistant. We were on the call with them and I was just like, I just knew. But I also had backed up data to prove that like they weren't getting us certain results. And it had been so many months and it would just got to this point where it was like, okay, like this has to happen. Right. But I came in prepared. I came in, prepared for that conversation to say, this is proof that it's not working out. I gave him the opportunity to kind of rebuttal, to say, this is how we can make it work. But I already knew deep down. I was already convinced it. It's just not going to work it. Something fell off and misaligned. Right. And so I just want to kind of share that, that like, What isn't working out, if you can actually identify it. So for example, Maybe it's they're working too slow or they keep having a bunch of errors or they keep asking me a bunch of questions. Identify what that problem is. So a lot of those, the three things that I just mentioned, like, they're asking you way too many questions. It's probably not because they're dumb. It's probably because you've avoided giving them the information upfront. You might've said go do bookkeeping. Well, they have 10 years of experience. Alyssa. Why do I need to tell them how to do bookkeeping? Yeah, but your way of doing like your own setup for your chart of accounts is wildly different than many other accounting firms. And so I just want you to like, take a step back and realize that sometimes there is a solution. To fix, what's not working. So identify what's not working. And this is where KPI's really will come in handy. So KPIs is a concept. That we teach inside of breakthrough. And so key performance indicators is what they are, and essentially you use them to track. And measure certain metrics within the company to see if things are improving or decreasing or whatever that looks like. You want to at least tie some sort of like an outcome to your KPIs, because like first you have to understand, like, what do you want from them? And then when you identify what you want, like what success looks like for you, for them, you then track the metrics to measure whether that outcome is actually working for you. So don't think that just because you set up a couple of numbers to where your KPIs means that like, You're going to be fine. You really need to see what do you want from them and what metrics do you need to track to make sure that that success is actually happening? And so my recommendation is if you're tracking a couple of things, it doesn't have to be super complicated. I even teach us in breakthrough that like literally pick. One metric to track for this one team member. Like what is the core metric that makes the most sense for that team member? Let's say it's a bookkeeper and the big issue that you've identified as number of errors. So then from here on out, put them on a performance review plan and go do performance reviews every 30, 60, 90 days, whatever that looks like for you. If you're going to give them a 30 day chance, then start tracking that one metric. That you know, how many mistakes are they making on a weekly basis for us? We only do it on a monthly basis because we're tracking number of errors by month end. So if this was me, I'd be like doing a, performance review for 90 days. 30, 60, 90 days. So three times over a 90 day period. And I would probably look at the KPIs of number of errors across the three months. And it's as simple as that. It does not have to be complicated. It doesn't have to be a fancy spreadsheet. It could just be really straightforward. So what's not working and identifying that. What are the mistakes that are being made? Because the reason too is if we can identify what's been going wrong based off like our measurements and just self-reflecting. We can also even ask the team member, like, what do you feel like you've been like making mistakes on, and this is not a way for me to judge you. This is genuinely like, what can I support you with? This also helps you to avoid making the same mistakes in the future. And that's like, so key for this conversation. It's a little last two points. I kind of want to cover before I kind of end this off today. Is letting go of team members. So I know this is really hard, but I will say that depending on how they're set up within the company. So for example, if they're a contractor. Or if they're an employee, there might be a different route. The beauty of a contractor is, is that we can kind of like let them go very easily. Employees, depending on your state there's might be some, you know, rules or did you actually do a performance plan? Did you indicate to them that there's any issues? So you might want to look into that and that's with an HR expert. But for example, when you are ready to logistically, like actually let them go. Then my recommendation is have that hard conversation to say, look. And this is why I think it's so important to have performance reviews and have these metrics, because like, if you just go into it, blindly being like, it just doesn't work. Like that's not doing them a favor either. Like. Imagine if you were an employee. And they were just like, you know, it's just not working out and you're like, but why. I was like, I don't know. I'm just not working out because you didn't do take the time to actually tell yourself what is actually wrong with this team member, because maybe it truly is an ego thing that you failed to get them something. Or you were just hoping that they were just going to be able to jump right into your business. Like I said, I have years of experience of running businesses. I have been working with thousands of accounting firms around the world. I have owned two now at my own point. If I were to jump into your own business, I would fail. Because I need to know how you run, how you operate. How you booked journal entries. Like these things are so key and so important. So when you're letting go of this team member, you need to come prepared. And like I said, it is your choice. It is your choice to show up and say, I don't even want to explain it. That's fine. You do you bill. It's all up to you. But for me, I think it's a little bit unfair if they don't understand why it's not working out. And so like you can come to them and let them know like, Hey, here's the things that weren't working out. I'm unfortunately gonna need to let you go. And from that conversation, that's when you can start backtracking and making sure to remove them from softwares, do whatever needs to be done, ask them kind of where they left off. Are you cutting them off right away? Or do you want them, you know, w what's the process going to be like for you? The last step is finding the next best person. So like I said, at the very beginning, it's kind of like a relationship. You can't just expect that. You know, you're going to continue the same pattern and like never change anything about yourself. Like something needs to change. Clearly to find the next best person. So a couple of things that can happen in this phase finding the next best person may mean slow down, stop trying to hire so quickly. I see this often in the space. I see that people are so desperate to have someone working for them that they'll just hire anyone. Just hoping for the best. Or they'll go to like bookkeeper launch, which is like a program I used to teach on and in bookkeeper launch and they'll go on the Facebook group and just pick someone like don't do that. People slow down when you hire slow down, like make sure that whoever you're bringing on is strategic. It's the right fit. They're the right culture, fit value, fit that they have the right knowledge, the right expertise and that they can fit in and mold within your company. And so that's the first key step to making sure to find the next best surface person. What did you do last time? What did you wish you layered in the last time that you hired the last person? Did you maybe fail to actually quiz them? Did you maybe fail to have certain information and so on and so forth. So you're going to ask yourself those questions. How can we fix it and adjust it? Then you're actually going to go and find the person can we layer in new interview questions? My recommendation then. I don't know who told me this like many years ago, but it like blew my mind. So I'm going to hopefully help blow your mind. The things that you're going to ask in your interview are going to be the same things that frustrated you from the last person you're now replacing. What I mean by that is let's just say, for example, You absolutely hated that this purse, this prior person that you just let go of. Would always have to come to you and ask questions, no matter how much information you gave, they always had to get validation. So in your interview questions and also your job description, you want to make sure to say, I am finding someone who is a go getter. Who's a self learner who can guide their selves. They don't need someone holding their hands. That's the language I would use in the job description. Plus in the interview question, I would have put them on the spot and say I'm really looking to work with someone who could be 10 steps ahead of me. Doesn't need me to hold their hand. Can you please share an instance with me where maybe you showcase those types of traits and personalities, and this is where you're going to start to take the things you hated about someone else. Turn it into something into a question to make sure that they can answer in a way that makes sense for you. And so this really blew my mind. I don't re I wish I can give the credit to whoever told me this. But I just thought it was such a genius idea. And so like, since then everything is wrapped around that. What are the things you hated about this person that you want opposite of? Right. So put that in your job description. If you hated that they. You know, we're never on time and always missed deadlines. Then you would reflect in the job description, someone who really loves to hit deadlines, and it is your number one priority to make. Sure things are turned in on time. You're speaking directly to the person who loves that kind of stuff. And so my recommendation is fixed the problem. And the deeper problem. How can you set them up for success for next time? It doesn't have to be complicated guys. Like I said, it could be a simple training agenda, simple interview questions that ask questions that are in relation to things that you didn't like about the last person and so on and so forth. So, thank you so much for Karen who submitted this question, VR Instagram, and I hope that all of you got some great information from this episode. One thing I will say is that we fill a lot of these gaps here. So if you're really struggling with this about performance reviews, really reanalyzing your own systems, processes, how to track these metrics and KPIs. And I'm going to invite you into our breakthrough for bookkeepers and accountants program. It is super comprehensive. I absolutely love it. We have three different coaches, myself, Brooks, wan. And Erica painter. Inside a breakthrough. We're there to do homework reviews where we can review your KPIs, review your job descriptions. Review, whatever support you need, you can be a part of our coaching calls, which happen every single Thursday at 12:00 PM EST. You can be a part of our coworking calls on Wednesdays at 12:00 PM ESD. And if you can't make it, no worries. Things are recorded except for coworking calls out of respect for our, students, we don't record those calls, but the whole program really focuses on the mindset of letting things go. The offers, the systems, the team that removing yourself from the day-to-day and we're here to support you. And I'd love to drop a link below the episode. You can also go to. breakthroughsystems.com/join, or you can click the link below and set up a concept call with me. If you want to talk through whether it's the right fit for you.